Blu-ray and HD-DVD and the Whole Mess

[oopAnt]

This write up has been building in me for the past few months. I could go on ad nauseum without any sign of making sense, but, given the recent circumstances, I thought it good time to look at it.
Comments, opinions, thoughts and feelings are welcome here. Rules of the HD thread do not apply here. Use your smileys if you like. This was an opinion piece, so i expect your opinions.

http://www.rareoopdvds.com/articles/news/hidefrant/

OopAnt

[BambooLounge]

Step away from Farenheit 451and 1984, take a deep breath, and repeat.

Just kidding, loved the article. I think your fears about Sony exerting content control over consumers is pretty grounded...I mean if I wanted to appeal to movie studios right now, the best way to do that would be to show them something that could eliminate piracy (at least in their naieve eyes) and that is what Sony is trying to do with all their coding/locking (all of which I believe has already been cracked).

The bit about having to upgrade your entire system with the player is certainly true, but I think it is to varying degrees. Granted the ideal way to watch high def movies would be in a home theater-type atmosphere (that I wish I had). But, I think for others, like myself, would settle for a 1080p tv with average speakers. Obviously, if you do not see an upgrade in the picture quality (perhaps they are blind) and only want to update your audio then there is a problem. But then again, I assume people who get sucked in more for the audio enhancement high-def provides, probably already have a capable sound system or intend to put one together. As for the HDTV necessity, I don't think that one will be too much of a problem as consumers are inundated with advertising for these and I think many people will probably upgrade their tv's first for hd channels and find that the next logical step is to get either an hd-dvd or blu-ray player. I am not sure how many people would be buying the HDTV specifically to play high-def disc media.

My biggest fear is that the studio's will feel that high-def media can be only what it is now, a niche industry, which would mean a rigid pricing structure (once there is a sole hd format) and less titles. Yet, I have a really hard time believing high-def movies will ever be embraced by the masses. I just don't think people will care enough. Going from VHS to DVD was mindblowing for everyone involved, no more forced full-frame, better sound, etc. DVD to High-def may be mindblowing for cinephiles, "OMG...look, you can see the hairs by DeNiro's mole!" but the average movie viewer will not care as much and reply, "So, you paid more just for that?!?" I mean when I first got my HD-DVD player and saw the cars in Casino gleaming and saw the texture of the fabric on sport coats, I was in heaven, I showed my parents the same thing, and well, they were impressed, but it was not, the same "WOW! I need to buy this right now!" impressed that occurred when my dad first saw a HD broadcast football game and HAD to upgrade his tv/cable b/c the jump from DVD to HDM is not "that" huge, I mean it is for those who care, but for the casual movie viewer that doesn't stop the world around them when watching a film, its somewhat marginal, its less of a jump from normal cable broadcast to hd broadcast IMO. So, my prediction for HDM is that it is this generation's LaserDisc (I was too young to ever get involved with LD) except that it will hopefully last a lot longer (although, LD lasted long enough for Criterion to unleash an onslaught of great titles). Eventually, people will just download all of their media until they have that chip implanted in their brain that allows them to think of a film/show/song, which will then play on the lenses of thought viewing glasses all while the government simulataneously monitors their thoughts.

But at least some of us will be chip-less and happy with our high-def systems. (sorry, had to use one just for the sake of it after being told I could).

[Krychekxf]

Nice rant Ant. I couldn't agree with you more. Sony makes a few products (tv's being one of them) really well but alot of their products are built on name recognition alone and are crap. Also, pretty much anything you buy with the name SONY on it is coming at a premium price. I hardly ever see any type of discounts from SONY on their products. Maybe it's from importing their products all the way here or maybe it's just pure greed. That said, I was hoping for HD-DVD to win out because beside from all these deals going on right now (on dvds) I noticed Blu-Ray dvds were more expensive at stores like Circuit City.

As far as upgrading to a better picture via 1080i/p tv, hdmi cables, receiver, etc... I think if you like watching tv and movies you were probably already planning one day for a dream theater of your own if being able to afford it. I think we all pieced ours together a little at a time. Heck, even if your on a budget you could probably swing everything mildly cheap.

Getting back to SONY....They suck.

As far as the future being steered toward downloading movies and what not...call me crazy but I don't think that will ever replace dvds because their is just too much money to be made with dvds. Alot of studio's make up the cost of a movie if it tanks in the box office on the dvd. I don't see everyone downloading the movie at the same price of a dvd. Plus the amount of time it would take for a movie to download I could actually go to my Hollywood Video and rent it, come home and watch it most likely. There for sure will be something in the future to replace Blu-Ray because it has X times the better video quality than Blu-Ray (maybe Super HD-DVD) but until then...it's going to be a long time in between...

[KFelon]

As far as the future being steered toward downloading movies and what not...call me crazy but I don't think that will ever replace dvds because their is just too much money to be made with dvds. Alot of studio's make up the cost of a movie if it tanks in the box office on the dvd. I don't see everyone downloading the movie at the same price of a dvd. Plus the amount of time it would take for a movie to download I could actually go to my Hollywood Video and rent it, come home and watch it most likely. There for sure will be something in the future to replace Blu-Ray because it has X times the better video quality than Blu-Ray (maybe Super HD-DVD) but until then...it's going to be a long time in between...

The problem I have with downloading movies ala XBox Live is that you pay for just the movie and no extras. There are no extra features other than a preview that is similar to a trailer before you purchase. Now the worse part is you are basically just renting a movie like On Demand cable. You get the movie for a period of 24 - 72 hours and then if you want to see it after that you have to pay to rent or download it again. So if you're like my wife and watch Snow White every time you're sick, you might have to download it 3-5 times a year which is probably enough to have physically bought it at the store.

I see downloads as nothing more than a new way to Pay Per View unless its iPod style where you own a right to repeat view it. Even then hard drives break, deals & rights expire, people upgrade their equipment and with DRM (Digital Rights Management) as crappy as the 360's your content will be useless unless you are connected to the internet.

[DennyCraneIsMyHero]

The article is right. The point of digital downloads, etc is purely control over their properties, & who gets them. They have always felt like used dvd sales are the same as theft, people should pay every time they watch a movie, etc. And anybody who thinks the tracking features possible on new players will not be abused are fooling themselves. For crying out loud - Sony had a freakin' virus on cd's!!! But then again I see the bad things that will eventually come from OnStar. The companies do not care about the consumer, other than their dollars.

[hindolio]

nice write-up ant. but btw, i dont know about dasani, but actually dislike arrowhead water

i appreciate and agree with your basic points about the eventual move away from sd dvds. but i also agree it will take time because, although hi-def has been around only 2 years or so, as a recent hd dvd voter, i found it kinda hard to actually purchase any hd dvds because of the lack of titles im interested in. especially for the price. the b0g0s ive seen though tempting and priced fairly reasonably, at least for hd dvd, were not too appealing overall.

that said, i do think hi-def media is the next logical step in the entertainment of the masses. even if its simply because the technology will naturally get better and prices ever cheaper. unless things go spectacularly wrong (or right, depending on your perspective), it looks as if bd has bested hd dvd.

further out, im gonna even guess that streaming digital hd is going to be embraced by the masses later. physical, tangible disks (or whatever they become) may even co-exist for the collectors alongside whatever set-top microsoft hd player/streamer in the future, but i think normal consumers dont really want a shelf of plastic cases, exclusive bonus disks, bulky packaging, action figures, etc. i dont think it can be like a rental, where you pay for each viewing though. the technology and infrastructure for this would have to make leaps and bounds. but im sure this aint gonna happen anytime soon and prolly not in my lifetime. else id be outside sony, universal, bestcrap, et al picketting

[darkblueme]

I’m glad to live in a time where technology moves at a fast pace.
I’m glad to research the pros and cons of high def formats.
I’m glad to embrace change and grow with it.

I’m proud to support Blu-Ray.
I’m proud to own a PS3.
I’m proud to buy Blu-Ray movies.

I’m relieved SONY recalled their Root Kit CD’s years ago.
I’m relieved the format war is almost over.
I’m relieved the better format is winning.

I look forward to owning more Blu-Ray’s than SD DVDs.
I look forward to watching my favorite films in 1080p.
I look forward to upgrading my home theater system.

I’ve enjoyed riding the ‘Warner Brothers Rumor’ rollercoaster.
I’ve enjoyed seeing friends and strangers alike support Blu-Ray.
I’ve enjoyed following the latest Blu-Ray news.

[KFelon]

I’m relieved the better format is winning.

Do you really have to keep poking?

The war isn't over, SD is still winning and it's going to take allot more than weekly BOGOs to beat.

[darkblueme]

I’m relieved the better format is winning.

Do you really have to keep poking?

The war isn't over, SD is still winning and it's going to take allot more than weekly BOGOs to beat.

LOL!! Love the smiley incons, KFelon.

[KFelon]

I’m relieved the better format is winning.

Do you really have to keep poking?

The war isn't over, SD is still winning and it's going to take allot more than weekly BOGOs to beat.

LOL!! Love the smiley incons, KFelon.

I had to use it, it was too funny not to.

------
Give the world $30-$50 players, $10 releases that are only a month or 2 old, and new releases that aren't almost always $30, then we might have a winner on our hands. Other than slightly better PQ on (most) movies and some tech savvy extra features what is there? Is there enough difference to warrant everyone to upgrade their collections again?

Next year TV Stations will switch over to digital broadcasting, but instead of forcing everyone to upgrade to HDTVs, the government is issuing $50 off coupons for signal conversion boxes. This may force some people who can afford it to switch to digital tvs, but those with cable will basically be unaffected. Will this be a factor for the format war next year? Truly no one knows and we must all wait and see. To call Blu-Ray the overall winner right now however is an overstatement.

[JerryKILL]

I read your article and more or less agree with everything you said.

I am disappointed Blu Ray will win the war, mainly because Sony is evil.

It's all about content for me, not being able to see every blade of grass or strand of hair in my tv picture. I still buy VHS because that is the only way to see some of my favorite movies. I even pay god awful prices for some of them, way more than a brand new BRD. I fear the studios will neglect restoring older films and getting them out on DVD. Instead, we will see the same titles being pushed, just in the new format. I've got hundreds of films on my wishlist that have not been released on DVD, some of them never even on VHS. These are mostly obscure, older films, which may end up getting lost in this whole mess and allowed to rot in some studio vault.

Personally, I'm sitting back, watching and enjoying a lot of movies, and not caring at all how many pixels my screen can resolve, if it is progressive or interlaced, or if I have chroma upsampling error. Oh I'm sure I'll be forced into the new format eventually, but I'm in absolutely no hurry to get there. Maybe it will be the format after Blu Ray. After all, I did manage to skip LaserDisc.

[hindolio]

...Personally, I'm sitting back, watching and enjoying a lot of movies, and not caring at all how many pixels my screen can resolve, if it is progressive or interlaced, or if I have chroma upsampling error. Oh I'm sure I'll be forced into the new format eventually, but I'm in absolutely no hurry to get there. Maybe it will be the format after Blu Ray. After all, I did manage to skip LaserDisc.

i have to admit, i like your mentality jerryk. i personally joined the hi-def bandwagon on the red side because it was cheap, i thought it was eventual (you cant stop change), i wanted the look and sound of matrix perfection, and i thought hd dvd would win lol. titles look a bit better on hd dvd, but i really dont need knocked up (one of my free titles) in hd do i?

...I've got hundreds of films on my wishlist that have not been released on DVD, some of them never even on VHS. These are mostly obscure, older films, which may end up getting lost in this whole mess and allowed to rot in some studio vault...

hows about a handful of examples please

[JerryKILL]

hows about a handful of examples please

I keep a little list here.

[JerryKILL]

An even better list from DVDSavant.

[hindolio]

wow jerryk, you are a certifiable film geek